Greencard

[SendCookies]

ok dude I surrender,,,, you win !!! What ever you think is all good. Maybe I wasn't paying attention and it was a projected number... for 10 years are something,,, anyway thank you for putting me in my place.
There is one thing I would like to know tho,, do you think it's ok for them to be here illegally ?

Wagon, I think you have a right to your opinion as everyone should. I don't agree w/ your stance but, at least you're not too pig headed to the point of ignoring all others. I agree to a large part that illegal immigration is one problem that our nation faces. I just don't put it on the illegals as being the sole cause of those problems. I also don't think that's the major issue to tackle when it comes to our nations unemployment and budget problems. Good discussions here. Let's not try to kill each other.

[RVCrusher]

wasnt sure what i was to expect when i was opening a thread named "green card" LOLLL

[Tiarra]

Please don't get me started on the "WETBACK" problem here in the USA,,, oops too late. They are killing this country.....

I assure you that I'm not a racist.

Wagon, you seem like a nice guy, at least willing enough to have an intelligent conversation on the matter. I doubt your opinion can be changed on a poker forum, but please let me say, that if you are not a racist, then you shouldn't talk like one.

My wife is Hispanic, and it is getting more and more difficult for us to travel and be comfortable while visiting my own country. We go several times per year to visit family and friends, and even sometimes go to the Western Union of Fridays to send birthday or graduation money to her nephews back in Spain. When nice people like you see us in that Western Union line or hear us speaking to each other in Spanish in the supermarket, do think we get the benefit of the doubt? What about when we behave the same way in front of a true anti-immigrant or racist?

Over the past few years, the climate in parts of the US seems to have become toxic. Problems need to be solved, but I ask that you be careful in the words and phrases you use when speaking about the problem. I also ask that you do not include all Hispanics in the illegal immigrant problem which is done way too often these days. The fact that a thread on getting a Green Card -- the way a foreigner enters the US legally -- became a discussion on the illegal immigrant problem shows just how easily legal and illegal aliens are lumped together these days.

[bmeelneg]

Wagon,

First off, that was a good last reply and I give you kudos for it. I'm not sure what kind of answer you are looking for me with that question, but I'll give you my 2 cents worth...

Do I think they should be here illegally ... short answer ...no. Do I have a solution for this problem ... again no. Have I heard any viable solution from the politicians ... no.

Our economy is a complex system. We all cannot be CEOs and doctors. Somebody has to pick the fruit off the trees and the lettuce in the fields. For the most part, John and Mary do not want to work on the farm, Juan and Maria do. Like it or not our agricultural system is dependent on these people.

Could some type of work visa system work...probably yes. Then they would be here legally. I really don't see much of a difference from work-visa Juan picking then illegal Juan picking. Actually work-visa Juan sounds more expensive.

[abwil2]

bmeelneg,

But the problem is illegal jaun is doing it for slave labor wages, not living wages. What job in America shouldnt pay living wages? seriously? You dont think that farmer is making good money? enough to pay living wages to his help? they used to so why not now? Tio the grass cutting scenario if companys would pay decent ages and not just worry about there bottom line for the top 1% of the company Then it wouldnt be a problem to pay the 4000 vrs 1000. its cause of illegal that the standard of wages has gone down tremendously. There is NO JOB that a AMerican wont do, they just wont do it for non living wages.. Take Mcdonalds for example. Do they not make BILLIONS a year in profit? Yet only offer minimum wage not a living wage. Now either the cost of living has to go down or wages need to raise substantially..
again bmeelneg, they do have work visas but once they get here they dont leave when they are supposed to. We have a tx problem in this country and when 30 million isnt paying any on money earned its a real problem.. Which i think 30 mil is closer to accurate then 11 mil. They lie and say theres only 2 or 3 living in a home or apt but we all know they live 20 to a house.

Tiara I wouldnt have a problem with your wife, my problem would be you 2 talking in a public place in "America" in Spanish. As much as most places you call have the hit 1 for english or 2 for spanish. There shouldnt be a reason for it, should there? English last i checked was our language NOT Spanish. How many other country when you call the phone company or gas or electric co has a message to hit 1 for english or what ever language they speak and the 2 for another language? Altho i feel like our country is laggin behind most other countrys in teaching other languages. Most countrys teach other languages as soon as 1st grade yet we only have them as half period classes in Jr high and High school. but none the less its very disturbing to most of us hearing other languages talking in stores when they could be talking about you and youd never know it.

If you entered this country the right way KUDOS go out to you but if not we should do as alot of other countrys do. See what would happen to one of us if we entered some countrys illegally!!!

[wagon596]

I hope I haven't caused any hard feelings, that wasn't my intent. I don't feel like one word (which I won't use this time) makes me a racist. If you called me a "gringo" I wouldn't think you were a racist. I do have a problem, when illegals act like they have the right to be here, no matter how they got here. I don't even blame illegals for trying to come here. I know what being poor is all about. I live on 950 dollars a month. I'm disabled and old (65). My only way to make extra money (was) is playing in freerolls. LOL
No matter what what race or color, there is a legal way to come into this country. I'm frustrated with our government, they can't seem to do anything about anything (including making internet poker legal and taxing it). Ya'll might see it different but I feel my rant was more about a situation, than being a racist. Anyway, everyone take care.

[Tiarra]

bmeelneg,


Tiara I wouldnt have a problem with your wife, my problem would be you 2 talking in a public place in "America" in Spanish.

I'm not sure why my talking to my wife in a supermarket in any language would offend you if we aren't talking to you. Remember, there are those out there who don't like gambling, and who would take your rights to play poker away in a heartbeat. But if what you are doing really isn't harming them one iota, is it really any of their business?

[Prawney]

I think its ok to speak in whatever language you want. But when it comes to say places in america where people only speak spanish and not english i think this is a problem. Sure embrace your heritage but you are living in an country where the national language is english. If someone wants a better life and needs to emigrate to america to achieve this then all the power to him/her. But atleast try to embrace the culture of the place you are going. If you are leaving a place like mexico to come to america then leave mexico behind. Im not saying forget about it just dont bring it with you.

To go places in an english speaking country and be looked at like you have 5 heads because you are speaking english is wrong. Sure people can talk in whatever language they want but they should be able to converse in the national language.

[bmeelneg]

bmeelneg,

But the problem is illegal jaun is doing it for slave labor wages, not living wages...

Abwil2,

Again I'll give my 2 cents ... not an expert on any of this stuff.

If you want to believe 30 million that's fine by me. As I stated earlier 10% of the pop being illegal seems way off to me. Let's agree to disagree and not beat this horse anymore.

Onto the newer stuff .... Are they slave labor wages ... yes. Let me digress on this for a bit, but I'll come back to it.

All I can say is our economy is a very complex system. It's consumer driven. Take Walmart for example. The amount of goods that goes thru those stores is unreal. Why? ... because its cheap of course. Where do you think most of the things in there are made. If you do not know the answer I'll tell you ... China. Mexico and other third world countries too play their part. Very little of it is stamped "made in the USA". Slave labor is cheap, American made products are expensive.

It's a vicious circle we live in. What's good for the American consumer is bad for the American laborer. We would love to buy American but for financial reasons we buy third world. We no long can have are cake and eat it too in this global economy.

So back to Illegal Juan picking fruit on Cali soil. Juan is underpaid slave labor. American John could do the same work, but is not willing to do it at those wages. (American John could also make all those consumer goods at Walmart by the way) Cali grown OJ has to compete globally with Brazilian grown OJ. Brazilian laborers get paid less then Juan!

True story here to further the point. I live in CA and went shopping the other day. The store I was at had a produce special and was selling Chilean avocados for 79 cents a piece. The other avocados (likely grown here in CA) were considerably more. Think about it. These things were shipped thousands of miles and were considerably cheaper than locally grown ones.

I don't think Juan stole John's ability to make a decent living. I see it as the big international corporate conglomerates were the thieves.

[Bastian2607]

I think you need it.