Taking notes & classifying players

[squid300]

TBH, and I haven't read all of the comments, just the first page. So if this has been mentioned before I apologize

But!

I think that you are putting too much stock into stats as far as where people finish. I think as a whole, It isn't a bad thinga nd it is a good way to categorize people. But you learn so much more from just watching people play and learning what they do in certain situations. Stats aren't going to tell you the best way to extract value from a person. All they do is tell you if a person is a winning player or a losing player.

Besides the fact that looking up all these players is taking valuable time away from seeing what they are actually doing.

Just my 2 pennies.

[TheHaversham]

Any advice for using a HUD?

As much as I ramble, this could take me another entire thread, tbh. If you're using one, there is plenty of good advice out there. It's been so long since I used one, but color-coding was also key there (coding the actual stats so bad stats showed up one color, solid stats another, etc). I also knew several top players who never bothered. It's a whole different learning curve to master, IMO.

Very good strategy. I use a similar strategy for base notes when playing against "new to me" players, but I use more personal play notes when sitting at a table with someone plus a HUD. Looking at a person's stats are definitely great for establishing whether someone is "bluffable" or not though. Good players are thinking players and pay attention to your play, so if you are paying attention to your own shown down hands then you can use that to your advantage against them.

Any strat that you are using is likely to be a solid strat. Keep on keepin on, man. Indeed, my system is just the foundation, from which any other notes will be built. Long histories with regs allow for fine tuning and adding details.

TBH, and I haven't read all of the comments, just the first page. So if this has been mentioned before I apologize

But!
...

I didn't really read past this

But!

Maybe you missed some parts about it not being for everyone. Just my $1.85.

[TheHaversham]

Awesome man! And also whats the best way of keeping up with everyone's stack sizes and what are those obvious physical tells?

I don't really have a system for keeping up with everyone's stack sizes...I think it just comes with time. I dunno how much casino experience you have, but after a while you get a feel for what a rack of chips looks like, and how much each rack is worth, etc. You get used to stacking them in equal piles of $100, or $50, or $500, or whatever, depending on demonination. Tourney chips are different than cash game chips, but when you have a firm grasp on your casino's chip-color system, it just gets easier.

As for physical tells...whole books have been written on this (and I've read most, lol), but here are some basics that seem to be reliable in the games I play:
First, I always take note of how a person presents himself. Is he dressed impeccably (pressed shirt & slacks, lots of shiny jewelry, expensive haircut, etc)? If he is, notice how he stacks his chips. They will almost always be very orderly, in perfectly straight stacks, sometimes he'll even line up the stripes on the chips. Players like this will generally be tighter, and generally will play more conservatively. Ppl dress how they play, ppl stack chips how they play. A guy who looks a little disheveled, who just piles his chips in a messy fashion, is going to play that way, in general. Poker players are inherently narcissistic and egotistical. They love to share how they played a hand, how they would have had the nuts, how much they won last week, etc. Pay attention to all of this outward display that a player gives you. It is free info, most are completely oblivious to the fact they are doing it, and it gives real insight into their thought processes. But, as with all tells, remember it's only a generalization. There will be exceptions, and true sharks will purposefully give false tells.

Always watch players as the hand is dealt. Some will immediately look at their cards - this is a big flaw of online players. They're not used to waiting until their turn to see what they have. Watch the player's subconscious reaction. Do they shift their weight? Do they sit up straighter? Most players eyes, after seeing a hand they like, will move directly to their chips. Good players know this, but it's still almost always a tell because they can't help it. So when you see a the button look at his cards before UTG has acted, and then he glances at his chips, it usually means he likes his hand. If he then watches the action more closely than usual, or pretends to not even be noticing or caring, that just solidifies it. People are aware that tells exist, so they think if they look away, or try real hard NOT to concentrate on the action or hand, or try to slip into the background, but then when it's their turn to act they come in for a big raise, you can be sure you've picked up on their tell.

Always look left. You want to see the stacks behind you, and some old-timers and noobs can't help but start to get their bets ready before it's their turn. You will learn soon enough who is doing this and who is faking this. Some people have their limp in their hand before anyone even acts, some will be counting out their raise prematurely, etc.

Don't watch the flop, watch your opponents. If they stare long and hard at a flop, they generally have a draw or missed. If they quickly glance at it then look away, they likely hit the flop. If they suddenly shift weight in their chair or twist around to look across the room or in some way act like they didn't even notice the flop (after you saw them watch it), it hit them over the head. Again, they don't want to give off a tell that they hit their set or whatever, so they are making an effort to look like they didn't see it at all.

Do they sigh, or shrug before putting chips in the pot? This is usually a trap. The ol' "oh I suppose I'll call" play, when they're holding AA. Or do they make strong, forceful bets, almost shouting their raise? This usually means a bluff. Especially if they act strong while they bet, then stare you down. If they really had a hand, most players are so worried about giving off a tell, that they'll try NOT to be noticed. If they're making an effort to be noticed, it's almost always a bluff. Do they suddenly stop chewing their gum, or suddenly start to? Or shaking their leg?

Acting strong usually means weak, acting weak usually means strong. They are all generalizations, but once you back up suspicions by seeing their showdowns or whatnot, you will be able to pick out which players have reliable tells. The fun part is once you recognize it, and maybe you'll notice another player recognizing it as well, you can start to give off your own fake tells. I love to stare down an opponent when I've put a big river raise out with the nuts. If they know it's a sign of weakness, I'll even add like a subtle gulp in my throat. If they stare back, I might eventually avert my eyes, or try some nervous laughter. I remember one occasion where a guy actually called himself all-in with 22 on a dangerous board because I made him think I was bluffing by over-acting strong.

Most important, tho, is to watch all hands, watch all showdowns. You want to confirm tells if you can, but once you have, they are usually very reliable.

[potfan42o]

so focus on the 2-3 from where most of your chips are going to come: on your left. i think you win most of your chips from the players on your right....position. ?

[dk12]

nice thread....

red = pro - shark, watch out for traps
yellow = decent - knows what hes doing
green = horrible!!!

thtas how i note people... i keep it simple.. =)

[TheHaversham]

so focus on the 2-3 from where most of your chips are going to come: on your left. i think you win most of your chips from the players on your right....position. ?

Whoops...yes, you are correct, I was hastily typing before work, lol...thanks!

[tracyrickrobby]

WOW thats a lot of work!! more power to u!! i do use OPR while im at the tables, just out of curiosity!! and maybe to get a good laugh!!

[rghy2]

I don't really have a system for keeping up with everyone's stack sizes...I think it just comes with time. I dunno how much casino experience you have, but after a while you get a feel for what a rack of chips looks like, and how much each rack is worth, etc. You get used to stacking them in equal piles of $100, or $50, or $500, or whatever, depending on demonination. Tourney chips are different than cash game chips, but when you have a firm grasp on your casino's chip-color system, it just gets easier.

As for physical tells...whole books have been written on this (and I've read most, lol), but here are some basics that seem to be reliable in the games I play:
First, I always take note of how a person presents himself. Is he dressed impeccably (pressed shirt & slacks, lots of shiny jewelry, expensive haircut, etc)? If he is, notice how he stacks his chips. They will almost always be very orderly, in perfectly straight stacks, sometimes he'll even line up the stripes on the chips. Players like this will generally be tighter, and generally will play more conservatively. Ppl dress how they play, ppl stack chips how they play. A guy who looks a little disheveled, who just piles his chips in a messy fashion, is going to play that way, in general. Poker players are inherently narcissistic and egotistical. They love to share how they played a hand, how they would have had the nuts, how much they won last week, etc. Pay attention to all of this outward display that a player gives you. It is free info, most are completely oblivious to the fact they are doing it, and it gives real insight into their thought processes. But, as with all tells, remember it's only a generalization. There will be exceptions, and true sharks will purposefully give false tells.

Always watch players as the hand is dealt. Some will immediately look at their cards - this is a big flaw of online players. They're not used to waiting until their turn to see what they have. Watch the player's subconscious reaction. Do they shift their weight? Do they sit up straighter? Most players eyes, after seeing a hand they like, will move directly to their chips. Good players know this, but it's still almost always a tell because they can't help it. So when you see a the button look at his cards before UTG has acted, and then he glances at his chips, it usually means he likes his hand. If he then watches the action more closely than usual, or pretends to not even be noticing or caring, that just solidifies it. People are aware that tells exist, so they think if they look away, or try real hard NOT to concentrate on the action or hand, or try to slip into the background, but then when it's their turn to act they come in for a big raise, you can be sure you've picked up on their tell.

Always look left. You want to see the stacks behind you, and some old-timers and noobs can't help but start to get their bets ready before it's their turn. You will learn soon enough who is doing this and who is faking this. Some people have their limp in their hand before anyone even acts, some will be counting out their raise prematurely, etc.

Don't watch the flop, watch your opponents. If they stare long and hard at a flop, they generally have a draw or missed. If they quickly glance at it then look away, they likely hit the flop. If they suddenly shift weight in their chair or twist around to look across the room or in some way act like they didn't even notice the flop (after you saw them watch it), it hit them over the head. Again, they don't want to give off a tell that they hit their set or whatever, so they are making an effort to look like they didn't see it at all.

Do they sigh, or shrug before putting chips in the pot? This is usually a trap. The ol' "oh I suppose I'll call" play, when they're holding AA. Or do they make strong, forceful bets, almost shouting their raise? This usually means a bluff. Especially if they act strong while they bet, then stare you down. If they really had a hand, most players are so worried about giving off a tell, that they'll try NOT to be noticed. If they're making an effort to be noticed, it's almost always a bluff. Do they suddenly stop chewing their gum, or suddenly start to? Or shaking their leg?

Acting strong usually means weak, acting weak usually means strong. They are all generalizations, but once you back up suspicions by seeing their showdowns or whatnot, you will be able to pick out which players have reliable tells. The fun part is once you recognize it, and maybe you'll notice another player recognizing it as well, you can start to give off your own fake tells. I love to stare down an opponent when I've put a big river raise out with the nuts. If they know it's a sign of weakness, I'll even add like a subtle gulp in my throat. If they stare back, I might eventually avert my eyes, or try some nervous laughter. I remember one occasion where a guy actually called himself all-in with 22 on a dangerous board because I made him think I was bluffing by over-acting strong.

Most important, tho, is to watch all hands, watch all showdowns. You want to confirm tells if you can, but once you have, they are usually very reliable.

I know most of these tells, but so far I've only played the cheapest buy-in tourneys live where I haven't needed more then the easiest ones to pay attention. Watching the other players, I've noticed only maybe 1/4-1/3 have any basic knowledge of tells. They are usually the ones sitting back quietly listening to those that just love talking about their skills/bad beats/last weeks successes. Those are the best to do a fake tell on. My favorite is when I'm bluffing to wait about 30 seconds and while avoiding eye contact, lean back in my chair and move my hand just enough so that I can add a slight shake to it. Ok, I've really only done that once when I could tell my opponent needed some encouragement to fold, but it worked beautifully. It only took him another couple seconds to fold after my theatrics.

[JohnnyDeepStacks]

I grade the donks in the notes section on the site. If they are a donk I type GRADE A EXTRA LARGE WHITE donk. If they are a donk with a tude I type GRADE A EXTRAL LARGE HARD BOILED DONK.

[JohnnyDeepStacks]

I grade the donks in the notes section on the site. If they are a donk I type GRADE A EXTRA LARGE WHITE donk. If they are a donk with a tude I type GRADE A EXTRAL LARGE HARD BOILED DONK.

Its all egg whites to me.