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MovingFlea Limping with less than 10BB? 10-23-2013, 11:34 AM
chrisdione I do not agree with limping... 10-23-2013, 05:57 PM
babydrago9 The main reason everybody... 10-23-2013, 06:17 PM
WILD Gotta agree with this. It... 10-23-2013, 06:31 PM
lorenz0wns generally people limp because... 10-23-2013, 06:38 PM
MovingFlea Yes, I've seen it happen more... 10-23-2013, 06:48 PM
lorenz0wns You just have to understand... 10-23-2013, 06:55 PM
TheHaversham While I agree with the... 10-23-2013, 07:01 PM
lorenz0wns imo it doesn't matter what... 10-23-2013, 07:07 PM
Pray4Spades Because most players in PO... 10-23-2013, 07:55 PM
MovingFlea I actually tried this move... 10-23-2013, 08:29 PM
mikey4141 Limping with less then 10bb... 10-23-2013, 07:58 PM
walterb1991 everything is situational,... 10-23-2013, 07:59 PM
trudizzle Death wish....maybe if u wake... 10-24-2013, 09:59 AM
JohnnyDeepStacks The only time I limp is when... 10-24-2013, 10:18 AM
MovingFlea lol. that's a good one. I... 10-24-2013, 11:51 AM
W3llKn0wn yeah most of time under 10 bb... 10-24-2013, 10:21 AM
jayyy27 Umm yeah so never. You are... 10-24-2013, 11:57 AM
FrankWhite I've done it before. Late... 10-24-2013, 12:26 PM
tracyrickrobby i never limp in with 10bb... 10-24-2013, 01:21 PM
jasonv12 It's almost never a good play. 10-24-2013, 01:27 PM
ogKamehameha I limp shove with jq all day... 10-24-2013, 02:53 PM
rghy2 I'll admit, I limp in with... 10-24-2013, 06:30 PM
lorenz0wns good strat good strat i'm... 10-24-2013, 06:38 PM
jasonv12 You reasoning is good, but... 10-24-2013, 09:38 PM
rghy2 This is the basic strategy I... 10-25-2013, 06:23 AM
lorenz0wns Look at the math of limping.... 10-26-2013, 03:50 PM
jonnyboy I think it just depends what... 10-24-2013, 08:18 PM
marsd im never limping in with less... 10-24-2013, 10:53 PM
PokeYourFace In turbo games ( PO FR)... 10-25-2013, 06:34 AM
MovingFlea I shoved 10BB in early-middle... 10-25-2013, 12:26 PM
jgad115 Only way I limp here is in... 10-26-2013, 09:51 AM
Drock1116 You really have to see what... 10-26-2013, 11:13 AM
mike7734 I limp with AK AQ AJ KQ and... 10-26-2013, 02:39 PM
greengiant i would never limp with 10... 10-26-2013, 07:03 PM
mikey4141 If you have under 200bbs... 10-26-2013, 08:44 PM
zayzoo limping wiht 10 bb.. .. ALL i... 10-26-2013, 08:51 PM
cool2k13 limping in with 10bb is not... 10-26-2013, 09:35 PM
lorenz0wns Also, it would actually look... 10-27-2013, 12:30 AM
zbourque when you are low its go big... 10-28-2013, 06:54 PM
  1. #27
    PokerOwned Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    357
    Quote Originally Posted by rghy2 View Post
    This is the basic strategy I follow, but I will still shove in the 5-10bb range depending on the situation. Really strong hands ep and good but not great hands when I'm in late position are both times I will shove. I also feel that since the "correct" play is to start shoving at 10bb, more players are likely to call a wider range against this typical play. When I follow my own strategy I become harder to read. I actually believe that more people fold to my shove at 5x then the "book" player who shoves at 10bb because they have already made the assumption that I am a nit that will let myself be blinded out waiting for a premium hand, thus I must have a premium hand.

    I am going to have to get this some thought though. I watch a lot of people get knocked out shoving with 8-10 bb, but if they double they have a better chance of making a deeper run than I would waiting to shove.

    As far as losing all my fold equity to a limped pot, I typically only limp in unraised or min raised pots and after that I'm either shoving or folding to a raise. I won't be calling and chasing anything down which still gives me flop fold equity and I'll take down a bigger pot at that point.

    I think shoving short stacked is very exploitable, but that's just my opinion. If you had a large stack, you would only bet/raise 8-10bb with very strong hands or in very specific situations. If you're shoving short stacked you've opened up your range making it profitable for other players to open up their calling ranges and still be in a +ev spot against the short stack.

    One other thing I have to consider though is that my BR is still playing very fast paced tournaments where the levels are putting everyone short stacked fairly quickly. I think my strategy works well for fast tournaments, but when you get to slower tournaments with a much longer blind structure it must take more bbs to have some fold equity. There is a huge difference in how these tournaments play out. If the avg stack is only 15-20bb, you still have fold equity at 5bb since that is 1/3-1/4 of most players stacks.

    I'm kinda rambling here, but I hope I've explained my logic ok.
    Look at the math of limping. Let's say that there are ~40 players left in a PO FR and blinds are 150/300 and the ante is 25. The action is folded around to you and you are MP1 with 10bbs with a shoving hand (top 21% of ur shoving range) in a 9 handed table.

    We are limping 300 to win 675. You will miss most flops and I am assuming you are folding when you flop nothing but air. So 65% of the time we fold the flop and 35% of the time we are continuing. Assuming we win 100% of the time we nail the flop, which will always not be true , but let's assume 100% in this one particular example, then that would value the call at:

    (975 * 35%) - 300 = +41.25 equity on the flop

    But tbh, even if you hit your hand and you're up against the SB/BB the chances of them paying you off depends varies whether they want to GII light/top pair minimum.

    ^In that particular example, it is +EV. However, that is assuming no one will raise after you or no one will shove. So at best you're barely +41.25 EV. Poker is all about maximizing EV and the clear answer to maximizing +EV with 10bbs in MP1 is easily a shove.
    Last edited by lorenz0wns; 10-26-2013 at 04:08 PM.

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