Any Winning Double or Nothing Players with Strategy Advice?

[Adamw]

Interesting advice everyone!

@Jason ~when you say "regs", are you just referring to grinders you see in the SNGs frequently?

[Adamw]

Very Solid Advice!

This might not be knew info to SnG veterans, but...I was analyzing my history of double or nothing SnG's while I was calculating win rates and etc, and I found I tend to lose ones that had 4+ same people in them every time.

Essentially, that means that I am not as good as the reg's at these SNG's and I should be more selective in choosing which ones to play.

For other people looking to improve their SnG's win percentage, I suggest they analyze the composition of players within the SNG's they win and the ones the lose and see if there is any correlation.

I only have a small sample size, but I believe for me it is valuable info, nonetheless. It may not be useful to everyone, but check it out guys.

I know for certain that on some sites, players who know each other will coordinate together in the double ups to win as a group. They might even talk on IM or Skype while playing, and they won't get involved in hands against each other. That, and/or skill level could account for part of the anomaly you are noticing when playing SNG veteran groups like that.

[jasonv12]

Interesting advice everyone!

@Jason ~when you say "regs", are you just referring to grinders you see in the SNGs frequently?

Yeah, well specifically the grinders you frequently see at double or nothings at a particular stake. Like a grinder at $2.00+ on Carbon is meatwadgod (I think it's okay if I mention his name on here?) He is consistently playing 50+ tables of double or nothings and wins tens of thousands of dollars just grinding them out.

If there is a player like him at a table, along with a bunch of other winning players (sharkscope or officialpokerrankings are great for scouting tables), I usually won't sit down, even if I still feel I have an edge, as there are greater edges elsewhere if I am patient for them.

[pr41]

I owned the $1 Omaha double ups on lock before they switched over to revolution, won 17 in a row at one point. I know your playing hold em but try to see as many flops as u can as early as u can as cheap as u can with basically any connectors or suited hands. If you don't hit anything early go into all in or fold mode once u get into round 4-5 and steal in position at least once a round. Since blinds go up quick try 2.5x bb raises to unopened pots. If u get over 3500 chips don't play anything except vs small stacks to move game along or AA KK if you want. It's not really needed to even get into any pot when you get over 3500 about 80% of the time but there will be games when you stack up early and before u know it the blinds are coming to put u all in. Also depends on how your table is playing of course. The omahas had virtually the same people in them every time so I had easy reads on villains. I think the hold em $1s get a lot of regs too, so of course take note of who is in. Reading over this advice, it actually looks pretty crappy. Huge diff omaha/hold em. Eh, I tried.

[plutogon]

I know for certain that on some sites, players who know each other will coordinate together in the double ups to win as a group. They might even talk on IM or Skype while playing, and they won't get involved in hands against each other. That, and/or skill level could account for part of the anomaly you are noticing when playing SNG veteran groups like that.

Oh Wow! That makes it even more scary. I did notice at two particular tables there were a set of regulars who frequently would fold against each other and not steal each others blinds, while attempting to steal other players blinds...I also noticed a strange occurance where one of the regulars called an All in of a slightly smaller stack with a better hand and got sucked out on. After losing that hand he was sitting in 6th and was bound to get out next. But low and behold, the chip leader pushes everyone out of the pot with a raise that is slightly smaller than the 6th players stack size, and then he folds the flop....DOESNT EVEN CHECK, JUST FOLDS...and he does this, given that the 6th place player had like 100 or so chips left.

[vtriclone]

just fold your way to the money. i think that should win errytime.

[plutogon]

Yeah, well specifically the grinders you frequently see at double or nothings at a particular stake. Like a grinder at $2.00+ on Carbon is meatwadgod (I think it's okay if I mention his name on here?) He is consistently playing 50+ tables of double or nothings and wins tens of thousands of dollars just grinding them out.

If there is a player like him at a table, along with a bunch of other winning players (sharkscope or officialpokerrankings are great for scouting tables), I usually won't sit down, even if I still feel I have an edge, as there are greater edges elsewhere if I am patient for them.

Right now, my bankroll is about 100 dollars. It increases but then falls back down due to poor cash game play. I figured I would increase it to a more comfortable level and then use my winnings to invest in sites like pokertableratings or sharkscope or officialpokerrankings (which do you prefer). Should I wait for my bankroll to be higher, or am I just wasting my time. Should I invest in stuff like that early so my bankroll will build faster?

[plutogon]

just fold your way to the money. i think that should win errytime.

Well to profit you need to win a god deal more than half...you'll find an exact percentage if you do the math...can't remember off the top of my head but it varies depending on the tournament fee (the reason why you have to win more than half to even break even). Lets say you are going 50% at 5.50 SNG's. You invest 11 to play two and you win one at 10.20....thats losing 80 c per 2 you play....thats a 7.2 percent loss on your investment. If you multitable hundreds of these, your bankroll will pretty much be gone in a day...so yeah folding will work a little bit, but its definitely not enough for you to have a high enough win rate to profit

[plutogon]

I owned the $1 Omaha double ups on lock before they switched over to revolution, won 17 in a row at one point. I know your playing hold em but try to see as many flops as u can as early as u can as cheap as u can with basically any connectors or suited hands. If you don't hit anything early go into all in or fold mode once u get into round 4-5 and steal in position at least once a round. Since blinds go up quick try 2.5x bb raises to unopened pots. If u get over 3500 chips don't play anything except vs small stacks to move game along or AA KK if you want. It's not really needed to even get into any pot when you get over 3500 about 80% of the time but there will be games when you stack up early and before u know it the blinds are coming to put u all in. Also depends on how your table is playing of course. The omahas had virtually the same people in them every time so I had easy reads on villains. I think the hold em $1s get a lot of regs too, so of course take note of who is in. Reading over this advice, it actually looks pretty crappy. Huge diff omaha/hold em. Eh, I tried.

Wow sounds amazing! You were crushing it there! I hope you are still doing well and profiting. Thanks for the advice, some of that stuff is still good to have in mind, even if its a different game. The more opinions the better. And I will definitely thank you if I get into omaha double up's one day...as for right now, i'm having enough trouble with just texas holdem to branch off into other variants of the game.

Is lock not as great since they switched over? How are you managing now?

[sickread23]

Something to think about is ICM. Lion covered this pretty well.

Here's a hypothetic I want you to think about: You are 6-handed and everyone has an equal stack size with fairly small blinds still. You are dealt KK. The small blind shoves your big blind. Should you call?

The answer surprisingly is no. While stack sizes and blinds may dictate otherwise in cases where blinds are bigger, think about ICM. For an example, in a $10 double or nothing, there is $100 in the prize pool. This means with equal stacks 6-handed, each of your tournament lives is worth $16.33 ($100 in pool / 6 people). By calling will KK you are risking $16.33 to win $3.67. KK doesn't have those odds against a random hand even.

Really dig down and think about is calling an all in worth it? You'll be surprised how often it isn't. If you acquire a big stack, best to just fold your way to the money. Chip accumulating past the amount needed to cash is pointless.

Just steal blinds to keep yourself afloat and avoid anything that requires cards to roll off, unless you absolutely have to.



Another tip, target those who are playing hands early. They are fish and don't understand the game dynamics. Don't try to steal their blinds. They will call way too lightly. By the same token, feel free to steal blinds from regs or players who are playing tighter like they should.

And lastly, don't enter tournaments with more than 5-6 regs because the money in these is purely based on fish eliminating each other without understanding the game. Same thing goes with entering higher stakes games, like $20+, avoid it. The regs there will mix up play and play looser to take advantage of regs moving up stakes and the game dynamics change altogether.

I don't even know where to start with this 1. I really hope some1 else weighs in so my inebriated ass doesn't have to weigh in further. #IcmExplanationGoneWrong