There should be a law against it

[neutral1983]

There are so many stories but remember you are in a freeroll, so hands that are mediocre are played often....

[rghy2]

I believe the players that are the most vocal in these situations tend to be the real fish and donks. Just look at Phil Helmuth

[Paisleysky]

I'm trying to figure out exactly what there should be a law against based on the OP.

I believe he is saying there should be a law against inaccurately insulting people at the tables. I think there should be a law against insulting people at the table period. We could call it, being a grown up.

[azreal1]

I believe he is saying there should be a law against inaccurately insulting people at the tables. I think there should be a law against insulting people at the table period. We could call it, being a grown up.

and ssugs point is the same as mine, calling someone a "fish" or a "donkey" isnt really something to get bent out of shape about imo

[P0K3R4F00D]

maybe next time just shove ur 10s preflop and try to get the QJo to fold instead. If he calls then he is the fish even tho your are short stacked and raising with a wide range of hands. In theory you would of got a few GGs insted of ridicule. MAYBE lol this forum seems to be tough on its fellow players.

[abwil2]

even if you shove pre your not going to get a donkey to fold!! The call isnt that bad but manners around here are. Its sad when even mods jump in on ya just to ridicule or be condescending. But thats who Zab has in place here. Most are very nice(mods). Youd think playing from a community like this people would have some manners but it seems most are lost and need to degrade someone for the sake of self worth. Pathetic really!!

[kingkowboys]

I don't think the play was bad. Those who are referencing the Q making his hand dead are being too results oriented. In that hand there is no way you can tell your opponent definitely has a queen. I'm a little lost at this point because you say you are middle position but then post flop you say late position checks to you. That's not possible so who called your bet? This is important in determining hand ranges.

With 1 over card on the flop you are in a tough spot when checked to. If you check behind you are giving away a free card, but to bet will leave you pot committed. I think in this spot you need to take the chance and shove. Your opponents range is pretty wide with a minimal raise unless you have a read contrary.

The fish comments are just internet BS. I wouldn't worry about it. You have nothing to prove to any of them. Plus it's a freeroll, not the WSOP none of the other players are Ivey.

[wlmartin]

Boy this is to funny, its poker anything can happen and everyone over reacts on both side, just play and learn

Indeed and every bad call i make (im no Daniel Negrano of course!) is going to generate some solid learning tips.
We can all have trouble making reads and getting off a hand with overcards and thankfully for the times when we have the best of it, this means we get someone over playing their hand

I remember hearing something once and its one of my favorite sayings/phrases in poker

"Appreciate your good folds and celebrate your laydowns"

Young/New players will fold K2o and see it come up 22K on the board and come up with the thought that they should have bet big to win big on that board. They focus on that and end up adjusting their game to be looser which is the wrong thing to look at.

If you play good TAG style and are playing only 1 premium hand each 1-2 blind rounds, you will often find you laid down an OK pair of cards that your position could have even let you go in on and you decided that it wasnt the right call.

You then see the pot go crazy with chips and you see from the showdown that you were beat from the start. At that point you should appreciate the fold.

Next is the laydown. If you have AA and the board comes KK and you know your opponent only bets premium hands and you re-raised his heavy 5BB raise (which he called), you put him on top 4 cards (so AA, KK, AK, QQ).

Chances are he hasnt made his Quads so the only thing he could be beat you with is AK. You bet into him nice and solidly with a C-Bet which he rains back at you with an overbet.

In this spot he is representing the other K and is asking you to believe he either has KK or AK. He isnt afraid of your C-Bet so must be putting you on AA's, QQs or JJs to bet strongly.

So you take the nudge and put yourself off the hand.

He shows AK and you read your Laydown correctly... at this point celebrate!!


Too many people focus on not having made a bad call to win a large bet.
Instead you should focus on all the large bets you avoid throwing into the pot at crap hands and trust me, you will see some numbers!

Its best always not to be results orientated.
If you make the best play, perhaps even laydown a monster believing your opponent to have the better hand and he shows you rags.. and it comes out very bad or you put your money in the middle and get sucked out, dont focus on that.

If you call a raise with anything other than top 4 hands, you are gambling
If you call a re-raise with anything other than top 2 hands, if you believe your opponent to be playing straight up without a bluff then you are gambling


The point is that getting off a hand is one of the hardest things for poker players to learn especially when with a tight style you only get to play every 7 hands or so, you want to make each one count.

Best rule of thumb is, if your opponents hand is telling a story and that story holds up, fold if you feel you are beaten.
Always put your customer on a hand, even if it is just betting the top pair. If you feel your hand is strong or will become strong with the next 2 cards, stay in the hand for the best price you feel it is worth (either betting it for value or checking it for a draw). If you can with their image, betting information and cards to hand put them on something you are beaten with... you are odds on to be beaten and its best to get away as cheap as possible from the hand as you can.

Sure, people bluff and you will always, always get caught in a bluff but it is FAR better to get caught in a bluff and be mocked for being too weak than to assume you always have the best of it regardless of clear signals the opponent gives you and commit to feeding his stack.


My error in the game was that i put my need to get out of the short stack spot to a higher importance than putting my opponent on a hand. I didn't let him push me off it with his QQs and should have given him the chance to and a simple information bet or check would have done the job.

I learnt from my mistake and will work better at my reads in the future but regardless the need to call any player who you beat a fish is a bit bad. I have myself calmed down on fish-calling however if i go into the Hand History and see that my opponent mucked a VERY weak hand and bet into me with nothing, not even a pair or a draw... i can't help but fire up the fish call

[UrsuuL]

is a free world.. a freedom to speak... so you don`t have to take it so personally if someone call`s you a fish... you know what you can do.. i wish player call me a fish and go after me and take all chips from them... sometimes is good that some1 thing you are a fish.. because it calls you more often then a player who thinks you play tied ... think of this..

[morrrocanwave]

i win 2 days before 10 $ freeroll on pokerstars and i finish 6 th on the second one , the administartor blocked me " Zab " an know i can t accumulate my point to participate on it ...why cauze i play good poker !!!!!!

really i will write about what happen to me everywhere ....pokerowned never will be famous with all that restriction.

Morocanwave
i found a new one : railbird.

i post there about this site .