Just say no 2 Poker trades involving Paypal.

[Bonghead]

A guy earlier came in here flaming me saying he sold me poker funds and now he isn't getting paid. I only sparingly use PP, so when I heard of this accusation I naturally tried to log on. It turns out that unbeknownst to me, my PP account is frozen/locked. I have talked with some poker players who have told me if PP gets wind of any poker transactions or virtual currency transactions like Bitcoin; they can lock your account. I am still optimistic that this can and will be resolved in a timely manner, but I am starting this thread to warn players that this apparently can and will happen if PP finds out. I naturally am stonewalled until normal business hours tomorrow, but I just wanted to let people know. Even if someone reports that they purchased Bitcoin or poker funds with their PP your account can be frozen. I have been an active member longer than I would estimate 75% of the players here; yet because of this incident involving either Bitcoins or poker $$$ my account has been locked/frozen. I am not asking for you to take my side, I am just saying that I in the future will no longer be buying or selling poker funds or Bitcoins for PP. It is too much of a hassle. I would advise that you do the same. I had money on PP that has a small % of a chance of being confiscated. It is their site and their rules.... PP is an entity that makes decisions that are pretty much final. Oh and as a side note.... this whole issue stems from a site called SealsWithClubs. I would stay very far away from that site. The site runs the same software as the client @ PO. I have heard that admin could GodMode the Briggs software if they wanted. I personally would be leery if I was playing for a decent amount of money and Zab all of a sudden came and sat at my table, and all of a sudden started crushing it. Saying that is not a function of an inherent lack of trust in Zab, it's just the fact that one can never be too careful; and the mere allusion of impropriety would make me wonder. I would be curious to hear Zabs take on the Briggs software as it were in relationship to how much control he could theoretically abuse if he were to play verses us. All I know is that I played a Big Bitcoin mtt on SWC that at the time was around a $150 BI. I played solidly, and was partially backed by SendMeCookies and Tommy here @ PO. I was 3-5 players from the bubble when the site chairman named Micon started going crazy and shoving AIPF with reckless abandon. It seemed to me that some people were either scared of him or potentially "softplaying" him. I almost called A3 button vs BB when he jammed on me again.... I was getting short and was in need of a double up to make it into the money and potentially win the mtt for like 15 Bitcoins. That is $2250 in value at the time of playing. Guys routinely buy and swap shares of themselves, and as a small site it reeks of soft-play/blatant collusion. I was however fairly naive at the time, in regards to the sites sketchiness. Anyways, back to the Chairman Micon and his AIPF rampage; and his ever growing stack. I survived another round and finally picked up AK with 10bbs. True to form, an unopened pot lead to this Chairman and alleged poker pro Micon open shoving AIPF on the button into my AK. Now I am not a sore looser most of the time, but this seemed super fishy..... he paused for a few seconds prior to going AIPF.... then he shoved an effective 15bb stack into both the SB and myself the BB. Now I don't know of any alleged PROS, let alone even decent players who open shove and effective 15bb stack into 2 players with 72.... particularly when you know these players are getting short and most importantly ready to call with a very wide range of hands based on their perceived image of you the villian. The pause before Micon open shoved an effective 15bb stack into a pot that had only 2.5bbs is of major concern; especially after he snaps off TP and a FD with 27 dd. This is such a bad play, it makes me wonder if he did not either set-up/manipulate the software to ensure victory. I am telling you the ludacris play coupled with the subtle but noticeable pause makes me very strongly believe that he either knew what the cards were and were going to be; or he manipulated the outcome. Now I understand that I am a little off the original topic, but if you care to know more about SWC I encourage you to look no further than at the chairman Micon. If you google search this guy, you will find that the ratio of people that like him relative to the players that think he is flat out scum is literally 1-10. this guy Micon is involved in a site that at the very least cares absolutely nothing for their players; and at the worst is filled with a bunch of good old boys in Vegas who are washed out and running a shady poker site to support their habits that they acquired when they were sucessfull poker players in the late 90's/mid 00's. ( before poker became to complicated for these has beens to actually earn the type of money that they were used to) Trust me, I know of some of these haggard players that hang around there on SWC as Micons "buddies" Scott Fischman is the best example, although there are a few more. Scott made a few runs when everyone sucked at poker. He made a couple million dollars, now he routinely can be observed in Vegas playing 1/2 and occasionally 2/5 NL. I can assure you that these guys have other means of income, as no one can sustain themselves playing 1/2 or even 2/5 live.... especially in Vegas. These guys are the ultimate degens, and I am warning you all that some very shady shit goes on over there at SWC. I am so over that site, I wouldn't play there unless someone fully backed me and I was free-rolling bigger events. That site is rife with collusion and softplay. I even had a guy openly state to another player to "Go easy on man, we are on the same TEAM. LIKE WTF.... obviously site admin cares less than 2 hoots.
Back on the subject of PP/poker/, and away from SWC. (Which I obviously lambasted) I would avoid using PP for any virtual currency such as PO points or Bitcoin; as well as SWC and any JS/BCP/Lock $$$ transfers. It just isn't worth the hassle of either someone reversing a transaction, or potentially having your PP account locked/frozen with no explanation. Trust me, I am obviously speaking from experience. Obviously this is a ridiculously long post/tirade; but I had to get all of that out there. I surely hope that someone gets some use out of this. I am a slow typer, and this took like 5 minutes LOL.

I got lost after 2nd sentence .. can someone just say .. ( name ) got fucked bye ( name ) cuz ( name ) fucked up and released bla bla ( item ) to the jerkoff ( name ) before he had the cash. or he disputed later bla bla.???? THIS SHIT IS TO LONG please summarize

[rrickir]

2 things i found interestign really,,, one is,, that micon,, who dies run SWC<, can play in his own tourneys?? is th at alllowed?? i wasnt sure.... he used ot have that forum,, called, donkdown,, and ran some games on hero back th en too.... so i ws curious, when sickread, he was in that tourney....... ALso,,,, what Lynn, mentioned,. that paypall locked her acct for bitcoin?? SO IS NOt legel to buy bitcoin with paypal?? i have never done that, at all, but didnt kow bi tcoin, is only asssociated with poker??? so is that why they locked lynns paypal?? OK<< well,, def, interesting thread tho.. and woid like to see the outcome of it tooo here..

[Zab]

I would be curious to hear Zabs take on the Briggs software as it were in relationship to how much control he could theoretically abuse if he were to play verses us.

I can tell you the MOST I can do is see what your hole cards were after the hand is over. I can see all hands.. But again, only after the hand is over.. It's still valuable information, and SWC has this information as well.

AFAIK that's all that can be done \ seen... The (SWC) has made changes to their client though

[Zab]

After reading the thread, I don't buy Sickreads argument at all.. In fact I think it's bullshit

" I have talked with some poker players who have told me if PP gets wind of any poker transactions or virtual currency transactions like Bitcoin "

I have a pretty good BS detector, and that is BS. The only way PP would get "wind" of a poker trade is if you actually told them or the other party. PayPal is so busy with millions of transactions per day. There is no way that they just plucked this out of thin air and said "Hmmm This is POKER related". Noway, no chance...

With that said, I have never enforced anything on PokerOwned that happened on another site. If it happened here, I will take action.