im not old enough to play in a casino, but i do play at charity events where you only have to be 18 and i know at even the lowest levels of sng's, ppl know what they are doing and in a raised pot you see 2-3 guys max on most occasions (there are, of course, a few exceptions). just look at the wsop... 75% of the pots were won prior to the flop. i also think that is why you run into badbeats in freerolls and low stakes tourneys/cash tables so much, you got dumb donkeys who play any 2 and end up rivering a miracle - but to me it jsut seems like it happens way too much, and it is too predictable. i know when im getting sucked out, b/c the suckouts come in bunches... cant say the same about live on a personal level... i have run bad but not where every pot i play no matter what cards i have i am getting rivered or coolered (for days on end)... i understand where you are coming from prawney, but i believe online is manipulated slightly