WSOP Circuit Raped Me!! Then Karma Strikes Back.

[cerebralassassin]

A few years back I bought in to the WSOP Circuit Event $300.00 buy in. Shortly after the 3rd break I find myself in a hand where I catch Kd Ks in the BB. UTG+1 limps in, folds to the Button which 3x raises. The SB calls. I decide to move in. Not the smartest play but my thinking was antes blinds and the 3x raise and call enough in the pot to justify attempting to take the pot with out a flop and if I'm all-in takes the position factor out of the hand if I get a caller. UTG+1 folds. The button snap folds and the SB tanks, and tanks. He never says a word and eventually takes his cards and throws them face up into the muck pile. These cards are dead as soon as they hit the folded cards correct? The dealer turns them over and begins to wash the deck. A player across the table says "Wait surely he didn't want to fold that hand!" It happened to be AA or so I was told. SB says no I didn't fold. I say "No you killed your cards when they touched the much straight out of your hand." Dealer agrees and continues to wash the deck. I still have my KK. At this point the guy that chimed in about the no way he meant to fold AA says to the dealer you better get the Tournament Director over here. He comes over and the dealer fills him in on the whole senerio. He proceeds to ask the SB what he had he says AA then asks me if I seen them I say "I seen him throw them into dead cards so it didn't matter if he had 2 jokers." This is the decision he came up with. The hand plays. Keep in mind that the AA has been washed in the deck and its impossible to dig them out, and for that matter all remaing cards his AA and all folded hands are in the deck and live at this point so in reality he is playing with 6 Aces the 4 in the deck and the 2 phantom AA he "holds" I proceed to ask the Director to ask SB what suits he had, so he does and SB replies "Im not sure 1 red and 1 black, I think." I just say "Whatever" then director instructs dealer to deal a flop witch comes 2d 4d Qd. At this point I ask is my flush draw live since he cant declare his suits? This is the answer I get "No you cant win with a flush unless Ad boards" I reply "If Ad boards on turn can he make a full house on board pair river?" Director replies "Yes" I then ask him "Do you realize the huge edge you gave this guy from the jump? His 2 folded cards are in this so called "live deck" that has every mucked pre flop hand in it including his alleged AA, You then let him play air cards a pair and give him 4 chances to make a set opposed to my 2 you then after the flop take 8 outs from my hand. Where I come from that's a good old fashioned screw job if I ever seen one. If you pulled this in the poker rooms I play in, in my home town you would need a tag for your toe."

I file a verbal complaint to gaming commission on the spot they come down and we all pow wow and they decide that there isn't anything they can do about it Right then and I should file a written complaint at the IGC headquarters which I did but good luck fighting the WSOP. The best part is as the original pow wow with IGC and Director and myself and dealer busts up and I'm walking away the Tournament Director says hey sorry about your bad luck and hands me 4 buffet tickets. I reply with "Bad luck, really bad luck no what I got was cheated buddy F*&#ed if you will." I then pointed to the automated comp machine in the poker room and said "I can make that machine over there S%&T those buffet comps till the end of days. Keep it!" At this point the actual poker room boss Bill strolls up and asks what my problem is I tell him the story and he just cant believe it. Furious! then he asks "Will you ever be back?" I simply say "I doubt it."

Although I did come back the next day because my partner Final tabled that event and bought me into the $1,000.00 buy in and I win that tourney for a scoop of nearly $73,000.00

[pokerdemon24]

Awesome man sucks you got screwed but awesome you came back to win the next day.

[MichMan]

You didn't say what the turn or river was, but obviously you lost the hand. That's definitely horrible procedure for sure on the TD's part.

[cerebralassassin]

Didn't swear at anyone in front of anyone that was all done to the side. Never claimed he folded either just that cards hit mucked cards they are dead period learn that rule bud

[Prawney]

I think there should be and is some leeway in the rules so that the person in charge can make a ruling in a spot like this. Yeah his cards hit the muck but if its clear his intention was to call then i think its essential that you can over-rule the hand being automatically dead and call it live. Im fine with his hand being ruled live and have seen rulings like that many times. Similarily ive also seen the hand called dead many times aswell.

While i like the initial ruling, I dont know what the dude was smoking after that. The cards should be retrieved from the muck and the hand played out. Letting the guy basically play with 2 wild Aces is so wrong. So wrong that I find it hard to believe it even happened.

[cerebralassassin]

Oh it happened Bro believe that. My major issue with the whole deal was just that. The hand hitting the muck and being called live I can live with things happen true. IMO we should have chopped the pot amount before my shove or played hand out for the pre shove pot amount provided he didn't hold the 2 "wild" aces. Also part that confused me was the tanking with AA with only him and I left in pot should have been snap call.

[cerebralassassin]

Thursday Oct 20th 2005 TD's Last name was Lambert. Dealers name was Kelly and I have The Poker Room manager Bill as a reference as well. What would I gain from fabricating this story to start? However everyone is entitled to their own opinion

[KENTUCKYMEL5]

I don't know shit about the circumstances, but i can back up your opinion on the feller wearing a toe tag, you can bet your azz he would have been carried out the room in this territory. And i have seen it happen personally, and you can look that up in old news papers bud. From out right killing to severe cut and head knocking. When those cards hit that muck pile face up or down, they are dead cards. There is no such thing as digging them out, or playing fantasy poker with what "they" said he had. Thats written in stone. I can't believe it happened at a WSOP room. you did the right thing according to boys without balls, but you smack me, i kill you back. IF im in the right. You hit me accidently, every thing is cool, but don't EVER intentionally smite me or grave consequences will arise. I don't know if i would have let that go, but with all the ball'less boys being such wimps these days, you would have had to deal with them crying like little girls about being a bully. Violence? call it what you will, that's whats wrong with america today. Letting pussyfied boys run things gets pussyfied results. ASK NO QUARTER, GIVE NO QUARTER.

[LaserCats]

I think your a bot. Never heard of wild aces being considered in my life for unknown cards. The last time I saw this was when the dealer mucked a players cards by accident. They tried to retrieve them but she couldn't pick the two she had...its on youtube. They mucked the entire hand and she lost out an opportunity to dbl up. So saying that they let him play two wild aces makes no sense and I stopped reading there. Something else must of happened otherwise its the dumbest worst run casino and Id never go back. Bottom line is he had u beat and surely never meant to fold.

[LaserCats]

I don't know shit about the circumstances, but i can back up your opinion on the feller wearing a toe tag, you can bet your azz he would have been carried out the room in this territory. And i have seen it happen personally, and you can look that up in old news papers bud. From out right killing to severe cut and head knocking. When those cards hit that muck pile face up or down, they are dead cards. There is no such thing as digging them out, or playing fantasy poker with what "they" said he had. Thats written in stone. I can't believe it happened at a WSOP room. you did the right thing according to boys without balls, but you smack me, i kill you back. IF im in the right. You hit me accidently, every thing is cool, but don't EVER intentionally smite me or grave consequences will arise. I don't know if i would have let that go, but with all the ball'less boys being such wimps these days, you would have had to deal with them crying like little girls about being a bully. Violence? call it what you will, that's whats wrong with america today. Letting pussyfied boys run things gets pussyfied results. ASK NO QUARTER, GIVE NO QUARTER.

Relax Francis. U ever play at Ruby Ridge casino?