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What would you do in a PO tournament FIRST to act (SEVEN behind you) with A10s w/ 8 bbs and average stack of 12 bbs. 16 players left, 10 breaks the bubble?
What hands would you shove there? How do you balance your tournament life with stack increasing value?
I know what SR23 would say vs Mich or something, but more advice would be cool.
id go allin but i havent been playing good i lost all patience
I think with less than 10 BBs A 10s is shoveable there. You don't have much time before your stack gets to the point where even if you pick up a painted pair, you will get called.
fk it..go eat a hot dog.....no patience here anymore as well..... :)
I take the following decisions into consideration for this:
1. You are better than the average PO player
2. Your skill is stealing a lot of smaller pots.
I'd fold - you can pick WAY better spots and you still have leeway to try a steal (which is your move ;)) without risking the whole stack.
easy fold here.
shoving IP with rags would be alot more valuable
especially in a turbo style game, blind down to 3 bigs is not bad in turbos imo.
feeling the need to shove just becuz you are sub 10 bigs is so 2006, AND only applies to deepstack games
I don't know if I'd go as far as saying the fold is easy, but I think I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeYourFace
But I couldn't help but feel like I was making a mistake as I folded. I felt like I was intentionally doing the wrong thing when I did. O.o
lmao...#so2006....... xDDQuote:
Originally Posted by PokeYourFace
2.5x it, then if you get raised by a loose player snap call, a tight player then you could call or fold. If everyone flats your preflop raise and you see a flop, shove with any pair or draw. If you whiff folding is okay.
Hmm interesting, I expected the opposite stance from you. How much narrower do you think my shoves should be since I'm first to act? 7 players behind me is pretty scary..Quote:
Originally Posted by PooffyFooffy
Don't have enough chips for that. If I give up 2.5x, most of my flexibility is gone anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by babyfaceatl
its a fold, simply because in PO tournaments the antes take a long time to come into play and once they do they are very small. not enough help to your stack by shoving
I am no expert by any means and yes with the 7 players behind you its not the greatest spot, but there are only 8 at the table and the blinds are going to be hitting you faster. I often have waited or folded in that position, but then find myself down to 5bbs and then you are getting called no matter what you are holding. I just think with the 8bbs, and the bubble nearing, if 12bbs is the average, then they are putting their tournament life on the line calling you and alot don't like to do that around the bubble. I would make or break my game there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonv12
I would like to add, I would not call with it in this position, or shove it if it was raised before me.
I would shove with the A10 suited. You have to give yourself a shot at winning the hand or even collecting the blinds at that stage.
i'm prob open shoving a10ss easy. seems awful to fold considering the blinds raise quick so you can't really wait on a better spot to shove.
if u want to win the tourney u need to collect all the chips, and folding/blinding your way down to 3bbs does not sound like a great idea. i rather put myself in position in cashing in the top 3 than cashing small.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenz0wns
Heres where i differ then most here. Id rather small cash then no cash at all. I have more cashes then most per games and would rather have many small cashes then gamble to win the turny before the final two. granted i dont have ALOT of wins but to me a cash is better then playing all that tiome just to bust before the bubble and i have been the shortest stack many of times and came back to win or cash. Its never over til its over, In order to win it you must first be in it and if you aint in it you cant win it..
That is really tough to fold, Since blinds are about to hit you as well including antes. if you don't pick something better up in he blinds now your down to a little over 5BB. I would shove, It looks like you really lite shoving in first position because the blinds are about to hit you. You may get called with K high or a small pair, I would rather race in that spot then continue to dwindle
shieet partner, to each his own. i personally rather put myself in gambling spots in this tourney if I have a gambling stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by abwil2
I agree with those who say shove. Time is running short.
Wwsr23d
go all in lol
easy one, avg stack ain't much higher so easy for a snap call by anyone, so the answer is snap fold, wait for a better spot
This nails most of the key points. The main goal of shoving short stacked is to steal the blinds and antes. Sure double ups are nice, but I would rather make 3 shoves short stacked and have everyone fold me up to an average stack. I'm not trying to shove in places where I know I have the best hand, instead I'm looking for spots where I can get my opponents to fold easily and still leave myself with some outs. This is a good place for that. Shoving negates some of the positional disadvantage, and from early position will represent a strong hand, making your opponents more likely to fold. You're also close to the bubble and your stack will threaten the tournament life of the average stacks. The blinds are about to hit, which will weaken your stack enough that you won't have much fold equity. In addition, the blinds are going up fast, so you don't have much time, but neither do your opponents. They just haven't realized it yet. The average stacks are very close to where everyone should be shoving, and the variance will increase as more players realize their stacks are in a desperate position and make the appropriate all-in moves.Quote:
Originally Posted by PooffyFooffy
With all of those factors, it's a no brainer shove for me.
The only reason I would consider folding is if someone I'm in a LLB is very short stacked and I'm hoping they get knocked out before I have to make a move. Even then, I would have to put some thought into it, it wouldn't be an easy fold. I treat my points like a BR and my LLBs are large enough to be more significant than a min cash, and that can affect my play. If I've already won 1 or 2 of my LLBs I'll be more likely to take a risk since I will be +EV for the game even if my Merge BR doesn't reflect it.
I still think folding is best. <.< Maybe I'm wrong.
I'd almost rather shove a random K2o or Q6s from the sb if I must.
If everyone behind me is calling with 10% of hands, 77+, A9s+, AJo+, K10s+ KQo, QJs, I'm being called over 80% of the time when you factor in those that fold are throwing away more cards not in this range.
What's worse is I think 10% of hands is a small side approximation of how often I'll be called. This range as a whole has pretty great equity on me and my tournament life still has a lot of value as one double up will not make or break much more than a min. cash still. I'm sure as a whole this play is +EV, but +EV does not equal what will win the most money in the long run because of the increased emphasis on my tournament life at this point.
I'm actually really stuck on this still almost a week later.
go all in or fold man tyour playing all in or fold poker at that point.
Just push and hope for the best.
It's unlikely your opponents will be calling with the top 10% of their hands when the call will put an average stacks tournament life on the line. A more realistic calling range would be slightly modified to 88+, AJs, AJo+, KQs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonv12
Shoving a random hand from the sb won't hold up well if anyone else has entered the hand because you can be fairly certain that anyone that has entered the hand at that point has you beat.
HOH Vol 2 covers this topic very well, although I'd be mildly surprised if you haven't read it already.
a10s is 42% vs that range. i would shoveQuote:
Originally Posted by jasonv12
I would shove all in, without a second thought.
If it were 11 or 12 people left in the tournament with the top ten getting paid I would probably slow it way down and then fold with this hand.
This is a good hand but I would hope that your position would scare everyone into folding especially since no one has a really big stack.