Stop looking at poker the wrong way.

Its annoying to hear over and over people say, "omg he is such a donk played 46 against my QQ and he donked me what a fucking fish."
Ok.
Stop looking at poker as simply what you have.
When you play like that you get into a rut where you wait and wait and then finally get a "good hand" and try to get it all in.
STOP
Go on pokerstars.tv and watch ANY of the tournaments on there. 3 Betting with 104 is second nature to some of those guys.
And you can call them donks but I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you when dudes like Esfondiari have like 89 million in poker winnings.
So the question is, why are you just popping allin with those queens preflop? Did that idiot make a mistake calling it with 10j? Sure. But why put yourself in a gamble situation?
Take a hand I just watched.... majority of you guys would call hero a donk but thats why most of you are losing players...
Hero- 10-4 on the co raises 3x
button folds,
sb 3bets
bb folds
hero 4 bets, BUT NOT ALL IN GOOD LORD.
sb folds.

OK now it seems simple and you might be like yeah whatever, but seriously guys you can 3bet 4bet EVEN 5bet without putting all your chips in....

I could go on and on...

i own your soul!

good point. Alot of players myself included like to get it all in preflop, our post flop skills need help. If i could have a little better post flop skills thk could do a lot better at the tables

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Originally Posted by janish

Stop looking at poker the wrong way

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It is also possible in many instances you are looking at it the wrong way. It could be that in many instances people blow-up for a minute saying donk this, fish that, but they are just blowing off steam for a few minutes after a loss. The guys who go on and on, game after game about donks, shit players, rigged sites, it goes well beyond what you are discussing here.... :)

For the most part there are some players who are mad for a minute because they were eliminated and let their temper get the best of them.

...of course, that being said, there are a lot of Donk, Fish, Shit players at PokerOwned :)

But, that is expected when you are in the basement leagues LOL

There is nothing wrong with playing marginal hands in deep stacked game although 10 4 is pushing it. There is a difference between playing these hand profitably and donking. For example you have 6 4 suited and are in the big blind. There is a 3x raise and one call and you 3 bet 2.5x. This is a strong play because the likely outcome is you will get at least one fold and your 6 4 suited has equity vs many hands that will call. There are many situations like these but there are a ton more where it is -ev to play these types of hands. In PO freerolls it is hard to ever justified playing these hand while maintaining +ev due to the aggressive players and the fast moving structure.

yeah youll have thm type always, there good to listen to anyways

I agree completely. pre flop aggression is the key. learning how to use it more and more and realize that it is not the cards but how and when you play them.

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Originally Posted by WECpoker

It is also possible in many instances you are looking at it the wrong way. It could be that in many instances people blow-up for a minute saying donk this, fish that, but they are just blowing off steam for a few minutes after a loss. The guys who go on and on, game after game about donks, shit players, rigged sites, it goes well beyond what you are discussing here.... :)

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I also like to sometimes fake a blow-up, depending on the situation... especially if I can time it right so it looks like I'm tilting just as I pick up a monster, it can be profitable

Its one thing to bet with shit but its another to be calling raises with shit... Try that bs live and you will not be +ev that i can promise ya... So your saying online you have to be a donk/fish to be +ev, well ill stay a break even player then as good solid tight/selective aggression works live but not online anymore.. rather have real money anyways LOL

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Originally Posted by HopsnBarley28

I also like to sometimes fake a blow-up, depending on the situation... especially if I can time it right so it looks like I'm tilting just as I pick up a monster, it can be profitable

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+_+_

heres my theory . play loose in tourneys . play tight in sitngoes. i believe holdem is a draw game and any two can win. its not about the hand itself but its about when you decide to play the hand. so if i have j-10o and i fold it three times in a row but the 4th time you decide to play the hand and win the hand. its all about timing.

Well a lot of people will like to get it all in perflop on Freerolls!!

They figure they get off to a good start or screw it, bc its free!

i dont ever recall esfondiari playing a 4T maybe tom dwan!!

i agree with the original post. if you wait for a great hand to play you are relying on pure luck. You have to try to steal pots with crap cards and if you get caught every now and then don't worry about it.

very good point man, makes sense

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Originally Posted by tracyrickrobby

i dont ever recall esfondiari playing a 4T maybe tom dwan!!

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This was from Final Table of One Drop, I am kinda shocked at those numbers since the guy has always presented pretty tight for the most part...

Esfandiari had a VPIP of 37% and a PFR of 31%. By contrast, Hellmuth's VPIP and PFR were both 8%

Prolly be more representative if we had a total MTT VPIP instead of limited hands at a FT.

So I took a look at Esfandiari's hands over High Stakes Poker (Seasons 1-7) where it was a televised hand, which presents its own skewed factor, and he is still 33 / 16 over 544 hands.

I'm guessing if you could determine his VPIP over a long stretch, it would be under 20...

We're all donks at some point or another.

I see your point. But sometimes it can get frustrating to get unlucky constantly.

stop telling these idiots to play better we cant have evry1 3 betting 104

tom jones looks at poker like a fine woman. gotta caress he r real good.. yeahh

tom jones is a special person!

smoke weed everyday just get high and blow your bankroll have fun

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Originally Posted by abwil2

Its one thing to bet with shit but its another to be calling raises with shit... Try that bs live and you will not be +ev that i can promise ya... So your saying online you have to be a donk/fish to be +ev, well ill stay a break even player then as good solid tight/selective aggression works live but not online anymore.. rather have real money anyways LOL

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I didn't say anything about calling raises with shit. You should almost never call a 3bet oop. But honestly when done in the right situation you can +ev 3bet with any two cards, if you know the player well. And abwil show me one person that is "tight" that is a big name winner, there arnt any those times are gone. I'm not saying do it all the fucking time. Your 3bet percent should be like 8 or so percent usually, im just saying don't be like oh 2 paint cards these must win. Not saying you do that but a lot here do.

Interesting thread and worth re-elevating. As for me, I will continue to shun 10-4 in all but the most dire circumstances.

from what ive seen on these sites, its best to go all in pre flop because the best hand going into it almost always loses if you let people see the flop

yeah good post. i think this is a very common newbie mistake.

sorry i understand this coment... sorry.

People dont understand that ur not suppost to play the cards u need to play the players